Evolution and Transhumanism: An IRC chat

By | October 28, 2009

a little backround, the_doctor is me, a temporary psuedomoniker.

[04:02:35] [+The_Doctor] fucks sake
[04:02:48] [+The_Doctor] is anyone around?
[04:03:17] • NeX
[04:03:24] [+The_Doctor] lol
[04:03:37] [+Travis] your not alone
[04:09:24] • Quit: (Dijit) (Dijit@netw0rksecurity.org) (Client exited)
[04:09:53] • +The_Doctor »» WinAmp «« »» Logistics – Crash, Bang, Wallop (2009) – 13 – When It Rains, It Pours «« »» 00:05/05:59 [||||||||||||||||||||] (1.6%) «« »» Drum & Bass «« »» 1/1 «« »» 320 kbps «« »» 13.75MB ««
[04:10:06] [+The_Doctor] Travis ^ sure feels like it.
[04:10:32] [+Travis] well its late, and your not exactly offering a conversation starting topic 🙂
[04:10:41] [+The_Doctor] 😛
[04:10:46] [+The_Doctor] im drunk?
[04:10:59] [+Travis] its a question?
[04:11:07] [+The_Doctor] always
[04:11:31] [+The_Doctor] am i, or is the natural state of humanity?
[04:11:47] [+The_Doctor] a bit philisopical
[04:11:49] [+The_Doctor] atm
[04:12:08] [+The_Doctor] what is the next step for humanity
[04:12:18] [+The_Doctor] are we ready?
[04:12:25] [+The_Doctor] it will consume us.
[04:12:28] [+The_Doctor] as is.
[04:12:33] [+The_Doctor] i think
[04:13:07] [+Travis] you mean our singularity event?
[04:13:17] [+The_Doctor] mmmhm…
[04:13:22] [+The_Doctor] im scared.
[04:13:27] [+The_Doctor] but i welcome it.
[04:13:40] [+The_Doctor] its comming soon.
[04:13:45] [+Travis] its going to be rough I agree. if we survive it though we will be a beautifull species. enlightmened, ervery last one
[04:14:10] [+The_Doctor] i. must. live. through it.
[04:14:25] [+The_Doctor] if i dont
[04:14:30] [+The_Doctor] then i have no merit.
[04:15:05] [+The_Doctor] you must sacrifice to prove yourself.
[04:15:43] [+The_Doctor] i think long about this.
[04:15:49] [+The_Doctor] every day
[04:16:02] [+The_Doctor] and how none of this will matter
[04:16:21] [+The_Doctor] and its like working for nothing
[04:16:25] [+Travis] death has a way of removing purose
[04:16:41] [+Travis] what do you think the singularity is going to be?
[04:16:53] [+The_Doctor] not a lot of people understand the implications of the singularity
[04:17:17] [+The_Doctor] humanity will become “gods”
[04:17:34] [+The_Doctor] not many are ready to deal with that.
[04:17:48] [+Travis] not at first, but the tools will be present. time is a required element
[04:17:49] [+The_Doctor] there will be mass suicides
[04:17:58] [+The_Doctor] no
[04:18:10] [+The_Doctor] the singularity will happen in the blink of an eye
[04:18:34] [+Travis] sure, but humanity will not be “gods” until they have experianced time like no one ever before
[04:18:37] [+The_Doctor] people will not be rady.
[04:18:41] [+The_Doctor] ready.
[04:18:42] [+The_Doctor] even
[04:18:47] [+Travis] a human that lives for thousands of years
[04:19:03] [+The_Doctor] i have lived for thousands of years.
[04:19:07] [+The_Doctor] in my mind
[04:19:09] [+Travis] then, after that period of time, the “gods” thing will come into play
[04:19:25] [+The_Doctor] mescaline and mushrooms and cannabis have sought to that.
[04:19:33] [+Travis] sure, but there is a difference. when you actually do it..the lelve of clarity it would give..
[04:19:42] [+Travis] its imposible to fake or imagine
[04:19:55] [+Travis] it would be a fundementaly unique and defining moment
[04:19:56] [+The_Doctor] i have time traveled
[04:20:01] [+The_Doctor] and so have you
[04:20:06] [+Travis] something never before achived by our species
[04:20:13] [+The_Doctor] if you’ve ever burned yourself
[04:20:18] [+Travis] im not talking about metaphor bullshit
[04:20:22] [+The_Doctor] you’ve time traveld
[04:20:26] [+Travis] im al talking about LITERALY
[04:20:32] [+The_Doctor] as am i.
[04:20:32] [+Travis] living for THOUSADNS of years
[04:20:37] [+Travis] am*
[04:20:58] [+The_Doctor] the human brain is capable of thing s that are beyond our wildest immagination
[04:21:00] [+Travis] no, your talking about “as the second had moves” or psychoactivs altering percetion
[04:21:11] [+Travis] yea, a imagination exercise
[04:21:21] [+The_Doctor] no im talking about dreams telling you the future.
[04:21:22] [+Travis] awesome. but not nearly the same thing as what I am talking about
[04:21:27] [+Travis] something profound
[04:21:36] [+The_Doctor] as am i.
[04:22:10] [+Travis] I get that. and good on you for it. but that is literally a fraction of an order of magnatude less than the real thing
[04:22:28] [+Travis] no metepohors, no imagination. the unyeilding lesson of time
[04:22:32] [+The_Doctor] until you walk across your mothers cold wooden floor and look at her and tell her her grandmother is dead
[04:22:37] [+The_Doctor] you wont get it
[04:22:47] [+The_Doctor] especialy when your right.
[04:23:41] [+Travis] doc: it doenst matter what expeirances your talking about. my perceptions are not even relevent. you are turning this into an emotional argument. my point is that, no matter what it is, is irrelevent
[04:23:58] [+The_Doctor] i’m not trying to
[04:24:28] [+The_Doctor] but i do have a certain emotional attachment to time and clairvoiance
[04:24:36] [+Travis] there is what your talking about, a bold thing no doubt, and what im talking about, that very same thing streatch out across a time frame no human currently could possibly imagine
[04:24:55] [+Travis] ourside of a mathmatical anaylisis
[04:24:57] [+The_Doctor] but what if one could.
[04:25:00] [+Travis] outside*
[04:25:25] [+The_Doctor] i have never died. i have only changed.
[04:25:44] [+Travis] then wouldn’t you say that that person would benefit from a thousand literal years of that mental activity over the 30-odd years they a startingat?
[04:25:56] [+Travis] starting at*
[04:26:14] [+The_Doctor] what if the mind reaches that point
[04:26:21] [+The_Doctor] i’ll be there
[04:26:37] [+The_Doctor] i’ll try anyway
[04:26:41] [+The_Doctor] i wont give up
[04:26:45] [+The_Doctor] i refuse.
[04:27:24] [+Travis] if you are of the opinion that you can, we can, already experience bold and wonderfull things, then call that value x. no matter what value you place for x, no matter how substationa it is, x times a thousand year..a THOUSAND years…is going to be large at 10 orders of magnatiude
[04:27:44] [+The_Doctor] i think
[04:27:51] [+The_Doctor] that humanity at large
[04:28:01] [+The_Doctor] is in for a very very rough ride
[04:28:21] [+The_Doctor] besides those of us who have experienced time dialation
[04:28:21] [+Travis] the more you argue the strength of mind we currently possess, the more substatial and awe inspiring the idea of a thousand years alive becomes
[04:28:44] [+Travis] even those that have, exspeicaly those
[04:29:06] [+Travis] can not even begin to compare to what will happen to us as a species when immortaility arrives
[04:29:17] [+The_Doctor] i welcome it
[04:29:23] [+The_Doctor] give me a shuttle
[04:29:34] [+The_Doctor] and enough energy rations
[04:29:43] [+The_Doctor] im out.
[04:30:07] [+Travis] im on board with that idea
[04:30:33] [+The_Doctor] i can always park and recharge when i reach a star.
[04:30:54] [+The_Doctor] turbo’s can be applied to solar winds too.
[04:31:02] [+Travis] and woulodnt you agree that the person that returns after 100 million years spent experiancing the galaxy is going to not even be a human compared to how we think and precieve now?
[04:31:27] [+Travis] even if you ingest all the drugs in india
[04:31:28] [+The_Doctor] i dunno about you
[04:31:35] [+The_Doctor] but im getting nannos
[04:31:49] [+The_Doctor] i’ll become data.
[04:32:00] [+Travis] your not listening. you’re a bad listener. (30 rock quote)
[04:32:05] [+Travis] im going to leave now
[04:32:06] [+The_Doctor] lol
[04:32:08] [+The_Doctor] lame
[04:32:14] [+The_Doctor] i’m listening
[04:32:18] [+The_Doctor] im just saying
[04:32:29] [+The_Doctor] given that opportunity
[04:32:34] [+The_Doctor] i’d become data.
[04:32:00] [+Travis] your not listening. you’re a bad listener. (30 rock quote)
[04:32:05] [+Travis] im going to leave now
[04:32:06] [+The_Doctor] lol
[04:32:08] [+The_Doctor] lame
[04:32:14] [+The_Doctor] i’m listening
[04:32:18] [+The_Doctor] im just saying
[04:32:29] [+The_Doctor] given that opportunity
[04:32:34] [+The_Doctor] i’d become data.
[04:32:42] [+The_Doctor] a living machine
[04:33:01] [+Travis] that is the fundemental idea of transhumanisum
[04:33:05] [+Travis] your not alone in the concept
[04:33:20] • +The_Doctor is a liberitarian transhumanist
[04:33:36] [+The_Doctor] its my goddamn body and i’ll do what i want with it.
[04:33:59] [+Travis] wow, that’s not even a relevant concept. you really are drunk
[04:34:16] [+The_Doctor] how is that not a relavant concept
[04:34:42] [+Travis] how would archaic personal rights issues factor in? this would be after the fucking singularity 🙂
[04:34:57] [+Travis] the very idea of matter would not even be relvant
[04:34:58] [+The_Doctor] one of the fundamental ideals of transhumaism is that its yours to do what you want with it
[04:35:08] [+The_Doctor] at least imo
[04:35:27] [+The_Doctor] *transhumanism
[04:35:28] [+Travis] yes, but I really don’t think your going to have to say “its my body and I can do what I want!” after the singualrity happens
[04:35:42] [+The_Doctor] you bet your ass i will.
[04:36:00] [+The_Doctor] why do you think i’ll leave
[04:36:01] [+Travis] they will be like “ok, whatever. if you will ecuse me im trying to turn my legs into fins”
[04:36:03] [+The_Doctor] lul
[04:36:24] [+The_Doctor] i want to explore all that humanity has to offer.
[04:36:33] [+Travis] there wll be no ceneralized athority. we will each be a nation
[04:36:36] [+The_Doctor] and when i’m done with it
[04:36:41] [+The_Doctor] i’ll move on.
[04:37:06] [+The_Doctor] i wish it was that way now
[04:37:10] [+Travis] a government exist to protect and shelter. no one would need protecting and sheltering when scarcity dissapears
[04:37:15] [+The_Doctor] hence why im a liberitarian
[04:37:38] [+The_Doctor] the thing that scares me the most
[04:37:49] [+The_Doctor] is govt reaction to the singularity
[04:37:50] [+Travis] public speaking?
[04:37:54] [+Travis] ah yes 🙂
[04:38:06] [+The_Doctor] there will be all out wars.
[04:38:18] [+Travis] did you ever see the animatrix short, the one were they show the history leading up to the war and its after effects?
[04:38:24] [+Travis] it was the 2 parter
[04:38:27] [+The_Doctor] that they (the un-affected) will loose
[04:38:36] [+The_Doctor] so many lives lost.
[04:38:41] [+The_Doctor] will be a shame
[04:38:49] [+Travis] some scared people made the wrong choices and ruind our finest hour
[04:39:18] [+Travis] turning it into a dark and twistied nightmare, one that shames our entire species on the galactic scene
[04:39:24] [+The_Doctor] yep.
[04:39:29] [+The_Doctor] and it will happen
[04:39:57] [+The_Doctor] the human fear and retaliaton of fear will come
[04:40:08] [+Travis] what species would want to interact with such a twisted and wrong species? we don’t come out looking honorable or as having any redemming charaturistics
[04:40:23] [+Travis] its a great animation. I have it on my eternal
[04:40:29] [+Travis] really top notch story telling
[04:40:34] [+Travis] external*
[04:40:41] [+The_Doctor] its not a story
[04:40:49] [+The_Doctor] think of human history
[04:40:58] [+The_Doctor] it will happen.
[04:41:03] [+Travis] we don’t know how its going to happen. at this point it’s a story
[04:41:10] [+The_Doctor] and we, the transhumans
[04:41:17] [+The_Doctor] will be the victims.
[04:41:18] [+Travis] what I am going to do tommorow is just a story
[04:41:28] [+Travis] dispite all he evidenc I might have of my plans
[04:41:29] [+Travis] and past actions
[04:41:48] [+The_Doctor] buuuuuuuuuullllllllllllshit
[04:41:58] [+The_Doctor] when has govt
[04:42:00] [+The_Doctor] ever
[04:42:01] [+The_Doctor] ever
[04:42:11] [+The_Doctor] done anything for the benefit of mankind
[04:42:28] [+The_Doctor] never.
[04:42:32] [+Travis] the founding of a free state
[04:42:34] [+Travis] founding fothers
[04:42:37] [+Travis] there on your money
[04:42:45] [+The_Doctor] our money is false
[04:42:48] [+Travis] it might have been corrupted, but for 50 years it was glory
[04:42:55] [+The_Doctor] printed by a cartel of bankers
[04:43:00] [+Travis] those first 50 years, it was all about honor
[04:43:06] [+The_Doctor] the founding fathers had vision
[04:43:22] [+The_Doctor] they had real freedom in their hearts.
[04:43:22] [+Travis] yes. and they were a governmentso there is your example
[04:43:36] [+The_Doctor] but govt destroyed that vision
[04:43:40] [+Travis] what if the moment of singularty, the singualrity founding father, have vision?
[04:44:11] [+Travis] there has been many moments of vision at each major landmark in human history
[04:44:21] [+Travis] every fork in the timeline road
[04:44:31] [+Travis] what’s to say that won’t happen just the same
[04:44:36] [+The_Doctor] pure freedom is what i’ll take
[04:44:37] [+Travis] so yes, at this point its just a story
[04:45:18] [+The_Doctor] the singularity will happen within our lifetimes
[04:45:30] [+The_Doctor] and government will try and stop it
[04:45:35] [+Travis] story
[04:45:37] [+The_Doctor] and they will fail.
[04:45:59] [+The_Doctor] imho
[04:46:17] [+Travis] don’t make proclimations about the future. it goes directly against what the religion you follow, transhumanisum, dictates.
[04:46:37] [+The_Doctor] just judging from past history
[04:46:41] [+Travis] the only evidence you should use when making a deicision must be based on reason and fact
[04:46:49] [+Travis] not fear of a possible future
[04:47:01] [+Travis] otherwise your acting on fear just like thye might, and the situation could escalate
[04:47:11] [+The_Doctor] the thing is
[04:47:24] [+The_Doctor] is that there is always someone like me
[04:47:32] [+The_Doctor] always someone who feels
[04:47:36] [+The_Doctor] oppressed
[04:47:41] [+The_Doctor] degraded.
[04:47:45] [+The_Doctor] used.
[04:47:49] [+The_Doctor] by govt.
[04:47:58] [+Travis] would you ever forgive yourself if your causes side made a preemtive strike for a govermental attack that never would of came, and end up ruining the singularity by your actions?
[04:48:20] [+The_Doctor] yep.
[04:48:40] [+Travis] you have to put that emotion, that sense of betrayal, behind you, and encurage others to do the same
[04:48:44] [+The_Doctor] there is always another time.
[04:48:54] [+Travis] ranting about how the government will screw us I nthe end only hurts you
[04:48:56] [+The_Doctor] it will happen
[04:49:16] [+The_Doctor] even if its it my lifetime or not
[04:49:19] [+Travis] it hurts our cause. we must remain rational and clear
[04:49:34] [+The_Doctor] but the only thing that matters to me is freedom.
[04:49:36] [+Travis] to counteract the reactions of others. be the beacons of stability when the change occurs
[04:50:00] [+Travis] not another side in an argument over weapons more powerfull than we can imagine
[04:50:01] [+The_Doctor] i should be free to do as i please
[04:50:11] [+The_Doctor] as long as it hurts no one else
[04:50:23] [+The_Doctor] or inhibits their freedom.
[04:50:53] [+Travis] that concern will be come a moot point. your focusing on the wrong issue. may issues will “solve themselves”, and many won’t
[04:51:10] [+Travis] concepts like personal freedom is one that will solve iteself
[04:51:17] [+The_Doctor] negative
[04:51:38] [+The_Doctor] people will always try to control others.
[04:51:39] [+Ice_Dragon] morning DS
[04:51:43] [+The_Doctor] its human nature
[04:51:47] [+Travis] everyone will be superman. there will be no hungar. there will be no ability or reason to oppress. power will be uniform
[04:51:51] [+The_Doctor] just like war.
[04:52:17] [+Travis] your thinking of the moment it happens. im reffering to the weeks after
[04:52:40] [+Travis] any problem that won’t exist in the aftermath is not one that should be fought over in the war
[04:52:52] [+The_Doctor] i’m talking about the wars between the “norms” and the “trans”
[04:53:01] [+The_Doctor] because there will be wars.
[04:53:08] [+Travis] refocuse your efforts to the real concern, which is controlling and tempering reactions
[04:53:32] [+Travis] this isn’t a scifi tv show
[04:53:39] [+The_Doctor] i know
[04:53:42] [+Travis] there won’t be slang maned groups
[04:53:44] [+The_Doctor] this is reality
[04:53:44] [+Travis] named*
[04:53:52] [+Travis] factions, etc.
[04:53:58] [+The_Doctor] look at fucking christians vs muslims
[04:54:10] [+Travis] were all just people. reaction will vary on a wide spectrum
[04:54:14] [+The_Doctor] its been going on for fucking hundreds of years
[04:54:26] [+Travis] that is a division that has taken thousands of years to create
[04:54:33] [+Travis] institutions had to be built
[04:54:40] [+Travis] leaderships nad power established in birthright
[04:54:43] [+Travis] and*
[04:54:48] [+The_Doctor] what makes you think that the war on the “unwashed cyborgs” will be any different
[04:55:10] [+Travis] because there won’t be groups and factions with mission statements and leaders
[04:55:22] [+The_Doctor] but they will have.
[04:55:31] [+Travis] were will be a bell curve normaly distributed set of reatactions
[04:55:51] [+Travis] reactions*
[04:56:04] [+The_Doctor] sigh
[04:56:15] [+Travis] the same way religion was a thousand years ago. it took time to cull that mass of different ideas in to th 4 main religious ideas
[04:56:21] [+The_Doctor] i’ll agree that it will be hard
[04:56:37] [+The_Doctor] but i dont think you know how crazy crazy is.
[04:57:16] [+Travis] that’s just it. what I am proposing would be crazier. a complete lack of centeralized thought and action
[04:57:25] [+Travis] if you look at the implications
[04:57:45] [+The_Doctor] i do not want any type of centralized anything
[04:57:52] [+Travis] im not ignoring the problem. your over simplifing it
[04:57:59] [+The_Doctor] and if i’m given the chance
[04:58:05] [+The_Doctor] i’ll rebel it
[04:58:13] [+Travis] and yet your proposing factional warefare?
[04:58:14] [+The_Doctor] and so will thousands of others.
[04:58:31] [+Travis] lthousands lead by a common centeralized goal?
[04:58:41] [+The_Doctor] i want to walk away from humanity
[04:58:51] [+The_Doctor] alone
[04:59:00] [+The_Doctor] in deep space
[04:59:09] [+The_Doctor] fuck everyone else.
[04:59:21] [+The_Doctor] i’ll come back when the wars are done.
[04:59:55] [+Travis] so a combination of ignoring the idea as well as contributingto the negative emotions is your idea of positive change?
[05:00:36] [+Travis] what if intead you became a being of perfect clarity and reason, holding no prejiduces, rage, hate, guilt, or shame?
[05:00:40] [+The_Doctor] no, but i’d rather walk away than fight in some stupid war that is bound to happen
[05:00:42] [+Travis] and what if that happened to everyone?
[05:01:01] [+Travis] we lost all our emotional baggage
[05:01:12] [+The_Doctor] wont ever happen
[05:01:19] [+The_Doctor] even if the singularity happens
[05:01:21] [+Travis] the very same stuf fthat is making you suspicious and paranoid about the goverments possible role
[05:01:51] [+The_Doctor] those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it
[05:01:53] [+Travis] that’s were we are different then. the singularity I see happening will have a far more profound effect on our species than the one you imgain
[05:02:15] [+The_Doctor] oh it will
[05:02:20] [+The_Doctor] but it will be the same
[05:02:31] [+The_Doctor] just in a different light.
[05:02:31] [+Travis] that is why I was saying a human that lives for a thousand years will be a staggering new paradim
[05:02:55] [+Travis] you can have your future, I like the sound of mine much more
[05:03:11] [+The_Doctor] but the thing is
[05:03:22] [+The_Doctor] utopia doesnt exist.
[05:03:30] [+The_Doctor] it never will.
[05:03:34] [+Travis] and the future is going to be what we strive for. your “striving” for no change to the status quo, no loss of our negative charaturistics
[05:03:34] [+The_Doctor] it never has.
[05:03:43] [+Travis] if that’s what you aim for, its what you will get
[05:04:01] [+The_Doctor] and for every one of you.
[05:04:05] [+The_Doctor] there is one of me
[05:04:06] [+Travis] but the singularity is going to transend all recored history
[05:04:11] [+The_Doctor] it will never change
[05:04:15] [+Travis] its an event without precidence
[05:04:16] [+The_Doctor] life is.
[05:03:43] [+Travis] if that’s what you aim for, its what you will get
[05:04:01] [+The_Doctor] and for every one of you.
[05:04:05] [+The_Doctor] there is one of me
[05:04:06] [+Travis] but the singularity is going to transend all recored history
[05:04:30] [+Travis] no history book can wiegh in on what will happen
[05:04:41] [+The_Doctor] trust
[05:04:49] [+The_Doctor] if im there when the singularity happens
[05:05:01] [+The_Doctor] nothing. is going to be different
[05:05:02] [+Travis] I plan on changing. I plan on saying good bye to all the emotiona baggage that binds me in shame an d guilt
[05:05:10] [+Travis] I plan on becoming a creature of pure clarity
[05:05:12] [+The_Doctor] humanity will still be agressive
[05:05:21] [+The_Doctor] and destructive
[05:05:25] [+The_Doctor] as it is now
[05:05:28] [+The_Doctor] if not moreso
[05:05:56] [+Travis] why would you destory when you have no hate? why would you hate when you have no fear or shame or guilt?
[05:05:56] [+The_Doctor] for everyone
[05:06:01] [+The_Doctor] there is an oposite
[05:06:15] [+The_Doctor] i have nothing but hate.
[05:06:18] [+The_Doctor] lul
[05:06:24] [+The_Doctor] thats the thing
[05:06:31] [+Travis] and you don’t want to shed that?
[05:06:38] [+Travis] you don’t want to transend that
[05:06:42] [+The_Doctor] i’ve tried to be the clear minded
[05:06:45] [+Travis] its in the name, transhumanisum
[05:06:46] [+The_Doctor] upright
[05:06:52] [+The_Doctor] blahblahblah
[05:06:58] [+The_Doctor] and it disgusts me
[05:07:18] [+Travis] the complete transendation of what bind us to destructive patterns
[05:07:30] [+Travis] your not embracing what the idea has to fully offer
[05:07:33] [+The_Doctor] transhumanism must mean something different from you
[05:07:37] [+The_Doctor] for
[05:07:49] [+Travis] no, it means what the creators of the word intended
[05:07:57] [+Travis] all we have are our iterpetations
[05:08:07] [+The_Doctor] trancend humanism
[05:08:13] [+The_Doctor] as i told my mother
[05:08:30] [+The_Doctor] if we were made in the image of god then we should become gods.
[05:08:30] [+Travis] mine follow the defintion, yours act counter to it
[05:08:56] [+Travis] and when you said that at the beiging, that is why I countered by saying only with the effect of time
[05:09:10] [+Travis] its what started this discussion
[05:09:35] [+The_Doctor] i am a material person
[05:09:41] [+Travis] because transhumanisum dosnt hold concepts like power
[05:09:46] [+The_Doctor] as is 90% of the populous
[05:09:47] [+Travis] or materialisum
[05:09:55] [+The_Doctor] and that will carry through
[05:09:58] [+Travis] and would you say that’s a good thing?
[05:10:12] [+The_Doctor] it might not be
[05:10:17] [+Travis] they why keep it?
[05:10:17] [+The_Doctor] but thats the way it is.
[05:10:31] [+Travis] if everything stays the same, then the singulairy hasn’t happened
[05:10:31] [+The_Doctor] and those other humans
[05:10:40] [+Travis] agai nwith the “other humans”
[05:10:45] [+Travis] there will be no factions
[05:10:45] [+The_Doctor] the others that will ride the wave of the singularity
[05:10:53] [+The_Doctor] oh there will be
[05:11:06] [+The_Doctor] just so they can
[05:11:14] [+The_Doctor] the once with malice
[05:11:18] [+Travis] its going to be something richer
[05:11:19] [+The_Doctor] like i
[05:11:30] [+Travis] a full spectrum of reactions to the stimulus
[05:11:36] [+The_Doctor] malice for what humanity is
[05:11:39] [+Travis] normaly distributed
[05:11:51] [+The_Doctor] and what has fucked with them their whole lives
[05:11:57] [+The_Doctor] will rule out.
[05:12:08] [+Travis] do you want that to happen? or would you rather say good bye to the malice inside you
[05:12:10] [+The_Doctor] you shall see.
[05:12:18] [+Travis] to shame and hate the drives it
[05:12:29] [+The_Doctor] there is nothing else
[05:12:33] [+The_Doctor] haha
[05:12:56] [+Travis] your creating a self fullfilling prophecy, and its ony you don’t want
[05:13:10] [+Travis] your going to stay something you hate just to prove it’s the only way
[05:13:19] [+The_Doctor] for everyone that wants to trancend, there are those that want to decend and destroy.
[05:13:20] [+Travis] when you could instead just…change.
[05:13:44] [+The_Doctor] and watch it all burn.
[05:13:50] [+The_Doctor] and then leave
[05:14:00] [+The_Doctor] you’ll never change that.
[05:14:04] [+Travis] leave? how? if you destory the moment
[05:14:08] [+Travis] our finest hour
[05:14:18] [+The_Doctor] our biggest failure
[05:14:19] [+Travis] how would you leave a planet that has no life?
[05:14:32] [+The_Doctor] in flames?
[05:14:34] [+Travis] you included
[05:14:48] [+The_Doctor] fuck this rock
[05:14:52] [+The_Doctor] fuck this society
[05:15:04] [+Travis] your going to ride a rocket ship made of flames. way to stay away from medaphor and focus on reality
[05:15:10] [+The_Doctor] fuck your outmoded concepts of togetherness that dont exist.
[05:15:22] [+Travis] togetherness? HA
[05:15:22] [+The_Doctor] there will always be confilict
[05:15:28] [+Travis] now I know your not listening
[05:15:36] [+Travis] what I ma proposing is entirly selfish
[05:15:48] [+Travis] a society that cares only about themselves
[05:16:03] [+The_Doctor] that i like
[05:16:09] [+The_Doctor] but it wont ever happen
[05:16:25] [+The_Doctor] i am listening btw
[05:16:31] [+The_Doctor] im just argumentative
[05:16:33] [+Travis] and with everyone caring about themselves, then there is not oppression of others. everyone lifes to imporve or to expeeriance
[05:16:35] [+The_Doctor] 😛
[05:17:09] [+The_Doctor] if there’s religion its a false dichotamy im
[05:17:10] [+The_Doctor] o
[05:17:15] [+Travis] this isn’t everyone hold hands and sing, this is every stop carring about petty things that lead to war
[05:18:07] [+The_Doctor] hmm
[05:18:17] [+The_Doctor] but there are people like me
[05:18:22] [+Travis] there will be a emotional revolution, casting of the shackles of hate, fear, guilt and shame that have binded our spcies
[05:18:49] [+The_Doctor] who think that people are meant to be together and people that arent’
[05:18:58] [+The_Doctor] and that will cary though
[05:19:34] [+Travis] then there will be personal reflection, and a great deal of strong mental and emotional bonds, highly social. but there will also be a extreme amount of indivuduality that will over shadow it
[05:19:36] [+The_Doctor] i agree that a lot of the emotions will be cast off
[05:20:02] [+Travis] your idea of taking to the stars, only our of pure curiousty and passion
[05:20:05] [+The_Doctor] but i honesly think that bonding for life is here to stay
[05:20:09] [+Travis] only out of*
[05:20:32] [+The_Doctor] lots of animals do it
[05:20:36] [+The_Doctor] and what are we
[05:20:41] [+The_Doctor] just animals
[05:20:48] [+The_Doctor] even when the singularity happens
[05:20:58] [+Travis] why do you say that?
[05:21:07] [+The_Doctor] loyalty.
[05:21:19] [+The_Doctor] honor.
[05:21:23] [+Travis] why does that have to be true?
[05:21:37] [+The_Doctor] because it has been
[05:21:42] [+Travis] with the tools to reshape who we are fundementaly, why is anything unchangable?
[05:21:43] [+The_Doctor] and will cary over.
[05:22:00] [+Travis] again, your looking at history to explain an event with no precendent of any kind
[05:22:15] [+The_Doctor] there will be those of us who value where we’ve been
[05:22:16] [+Travis] consider the true implications
[05:22:24] [+Travis] oh absolutly
[05:22:26] [+The_Doctor] think of vulcans
[05:22:30] [+The_Doctor] honestly
[05:22:57] [+The_Doctor] as they are the closest post singularity species (scifi or not)
[05:23:06] [+The_Doctor] that humans have ever encountered
[05:23:17] [+Travis] in fact that will be a major part of what we become, a strong nostalgic contection to our roots. but it will be ulturistic, focusing only on core humanity, and not a requirment
[05:23:29] [+The_Doctor] mm.
[05:23:37] [+The_Doctor] you forget the neoshamans
[05:23:42] [+Travis] in star trek the vulcans are not a singularuty species
[05:23:54] [+The_Doctor] mentaly
[05:23:56] [+The_Doctor] yes.l
[05:24:03] [+Travis] nope
[05:24:06] [+The_Doctor] q – yes.
[05:24:15] [+Travis] they repress it. im talking about embracing it fully
[05:24:22] [+The_Doctor] and oh how i love to be Q
[05:24:32] [+The_Doctor] the devils advocate
[05:24:35] [+Travis] not removing or repressing, but embracing entirly our minds
[05:24:39] [+The_Doctor] the mischief maker
[05:24:45] [+The_Doctor] the thorn
[05:25:05] [+Travis] your interest in Q is basied in sadisum, a charaturistic of a failed singuality species
[05:25:07] [+The_Doctor] see thats fun for me
[05:25:14] [+Travis] or one that hasn’t had it
[05:25:33] [+The_Doctor] as if humanity wouldnt do the same thing
[05:25:57] [+The_Doctor] honestly
[05:26:02] [+The_Doctor] how many humans
[05:26:05] [+Travis] why would you find enjoyment in the suffering of others if you have embraced the beauty of the universe
[05:26:05] [+The_Doctor] do you know
[05:26:09] [+The_Doctor] given the chans
[05:26:13] [+The_Doctor] ce*
[05:26:22] [+The_Doctor] would do just the same
[05:26:24] [+Travis] that’s just it
[05:26:30] [+Travis] im not talking about humans
[05:26:35] [+The_Doctor] but no matter what happens
[05:26:40] [+The_Doctor] transhuman or not
[05:26:43] [+Travis] im not talking about homo sapiens
[05:26:52] [+The_Doctor] we all have that bit of humanity in us.
[05:26:56] [+The_Doctor] that malice
[05:27:05] [+The_Doctor] that compassion
[05:27:10] [+The_Doctor] that hatred
[05:27:13] [+The_Doctor] that love.
[05:27:17] [+The_Doctor] that desire
[05:27:25] [+Travis] that sentence is invalid. your asking me to ignore my idea of what transhumanisum means and then explain a transhumanisum moment
[05:27:39] [+The_Doctor] no im not
[05:27:45] [+The_Doctor] im asking you to think
[05:27:52] [+The_Doctor] what happens to the human mind
[05:27:53] [+Travis] haha
[05:28:04] [+Travis] not the human mind
[05:28:06] [+The_Doctor] when it happens to realize that it can do whatever it wants
[05:28:22] [+The_Doctor] we are all Q
[05:28:35] [+The_Doctor] and you fail to realize it
[05:28:38] [+The_Doctor] imo
[05:28:59] [@trey1] ?
[05:29:01] [+The_Doctor] to become something more is the ultimate toal
[05:29:12] [+The_Doctor] but how many of us wont be able to
[05:29:15] [+Travis] this is like the spooner monkey trials then. I have to explain my ideas of evolution,but al only allowed to quote and refferance the bible and its concepts. I am not allowed to talk in the terms of darwins work
[05:29:23] [+Travis] but am*
[05:29:25] [+The_Doctor] how many of us will enjoy fucking with others
[05:29:34] [+The_Doctor] how many of us will enjoy war.
[05:29:42] [+The_Doctor] how many of us will not change
[05:29:48] [+Travis] I can’t awnser these questions, because your not letting me
[05:29:54] [+Travis] I already awnsered them
[05:30:03] [+The_Doctor] honestly
[05:30:08] [+Travis] and you rejected my idea, and asked me to anwser them using your ideas
[05:30:15] [+The_Doctor] i dont think that you’ve really examined them
[05:30:21] [+The_Doctor] i accept your idea
[05:30:40] [+The_Doctor] but i think its too opptomistic
[05:30:51] [+The_Doctor] and too glass is half full.
[05:31:00] [+Travis] if any relic of negative humanity remains, then by definition transhumanisum has yet to happen
[05:31:16] [+The_Doctor] then by deffinition
[05:31:26] [+The_Doctor] it will never change if i remain.
[05:31:39] [+Travis] your neglecting one thing
[05:31:50] [+Travis] te very same thing I started this conversation with
[05:32:11] [+Travis] you can’t imagine the concequences a thousand years of personal relfection will have on you
[05:32:34] [+Travis] you will be come a creature of clarity, or take your own life
[05:32:51] [+The_Doctor] you’ll find that my views will get stronger, or i’ll go on to a higher plane
[05:33:21] [+Travis] time. in a ammount never imagined, will wash away the misconceptions driving you
[05:33:34] [+The_Doctor] i have nothing but contempt for the human species.
[05:33:46] [+The_Doctor] and i consider myself not a part of it
[05:34:18] [+The_Doctor] i am atention deficit sapiens
[05:34:41] [+The_Doctor] defficient in dopmine
[05:34:49] [+The_Doctor] not defficient in thought
[05:34:50] [+Travis] your rooting your ideas of what you are in things that won’t be a factor
[05:35:04] [+The_Doctor] they arent now
[05:35:21] [+The_Doctor] but thinking this way readies me for the oncomming storm
[05:35:25] [+Travis] I hope you live for a thousand years. I want to you to have happyness one day
[05:35:34] [+The_Doctor] never happen.
[05:35:55] [+Travis] is that something you want, to be right?
[05:35:59] [+The_Doctor] doesnt matter how long i live
[05:36:06] [+Travis] or would you rather be wrong and one day be happy?
[05:36:16] [+Travis] if you want to be unhappy then you won’t be
[05:36:22] [+The_Doctor] i’ll never be happy.
[05:36:30] [+Travis] you will be
[05:36:51] [+The_Doctor] not if life thus far is any indication
[05:36:54] [+Travis] because you will lose the desire to maintian a negative emotional state at the very least
[05:37:03] [+Travis] its not
[05:37:07] [+The_Doctor] i hope everyone burns.
[05:37:14] [+Travis] life thus far is not any indication
[05:37:14] [+Travis] life thus far is not any indication
[05:37:35] [+The_Doctor] i have more hatred and contempt than anyone i’ve ever known
[05:37:42] [+The_Doctor] i dont see that changing
[05:38:45] [+Travis] on an emotional level I don’t deny your words. your free to them. but I see a future were you can embrace what makes those emotions and defeat them
[05:39:02] [+Travis] or, through the kind application of time, become wary of them
[05:39:03] [+The_Doctor] or embrace them
[05:40:10] [+Travis] embracing them in the way your implying there means to spiral further into hate. maybe for awhile, but that is a positive effort effect
[05:40:43] [+Travis] its not like letting gravity carry you down. that is climbing higher up a mountaint, with rage as your fuel
[05:40:53] [+The_Doctor] maybe i’ll become the first human black hole
[05:40:58] [+The_Doctor] that’d own
[05:41:12] [+The_Doctor] human/transhuman
[05:41:41] [+Travis] eventually you will get tired and slide down. and you would not be contrainted by any chemical imbalances or childhood shames
[05:41:53] [+The_Doctor] sucking in the universe till i cant stop it
[05:42:13] [+The_Doctor] then exploding in a brilliant flash of x rays
[05:42:14] [+Travis] im going holloween costume hunting tommorow
[05:42:18] [+Travis] im gong to bed now
[05:42:24] [+Travis] so I can achieve that goal
[05:42:28] [+The_Doctor] only to keep destroying
[05:42:34] [+The_Doctor] perfection.
[05:42:54] [+Travis] if you want to achive yours, you better start eating sticks og butter and tubs of lard now
[05:43:04] [+The_Doctor] luls
[05:43:57] [+Travis] someone built on nothing but rage and hate would not laugh at a simple joke. there is hope for you that can’t be restrained
[05:44:30] [+Travis] maybe 2 thousand years of reflection, a difficult case, but you would become a beatutifull as the rest of us
[05:45:55] [+The_Doctor] i refuse.
[05:46:50] [+Travis] after a thosuand years of activly refusing, you’ll get tired and not care anymore. then a thousand years examining what drove you to such finatical self-hate and you’ll be right as rain
[05:47:03] [+Travis] fanatical*
[05:47:14] [+The_Doctor] i doubt it
[05:47:29] [+The_Doctor] but gl with your rainbow shitting unicorns
[05:47:31] [+The_Doctor] 😛
[05:49:02] • +The_Doctor »» WinAmp «« »» Marilyn Manson – Portrait Of An American Family (1994) – 13 – Misery Machine «« »» 00:06/13:09 [||||||||||||||||||||] (0.9%) «« »» unknown «« »» 1/1 «« »» 320 kbps «« »» 30.1MB ««
[06:10:58] • +The_Doctor »» WinAmp «« »» Marilyn Manson – Portrait Of An American Family (1994) – 04 – Organ Grinder «« »» 02:02/04:22 [||||||||||||||||||||] (46.9%) «« »» unknown «« »» 4/13 «« »» 320 kbps «« »» 10.02MB ««

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